Tastes of Scandinavian Heritage: Recipes & Research

Fattigman Interview Transcript


Interview for Scandinavian Immigration History
Interviewer: Ingrid Floersheim
Interviewee: Laurie Veillette 
The Start:
I.F.- Okay, so I guess the first question just starting off, why is this dish so important to you and your family, in particular?
L.V.- (Pauses) Well, I think that of Norwegian things that I remember,that if there had to be just one particular food, this would be it. You know, this was the big production, this was something that all, all the sisters my mom had, she’s a family of all girls, and there were originally six of them and my mother was the youngest.
I.F. – Mmhmm
L.V.- So, it was a big production, they would all get together, and it always was a part of Christmas as well.
I.F. (Pauses and writes) So my next question, and you actually just answered that a little bit, is who in the family would make the dish? And you said it was all the girls, was there a lot of significance behind that? Or was it just that the females usually did the cooking, or why was it? [pauses at end of thought]
L.V.- You know, I think that they learned from their mother, who was by, she was, had passed away before  I was ever born, but she was by all accounts a very good cook, baker, whatever.
I.F. (Acknowledges comment)
L.V.- And I’m sure they learned from her, and so you know I feel like what they did was very authentic Norwegian. My mother is a hundred percent Norwegian, her grand, her dad came from Norway at the age of seventeen. [Interviewee is referencing her grandfather, her mother’s father.] And her mother was born in this country, but she was, her parents came here, and they never did, I don’t, I don’t know, she had a grandfather who lived with them who was Norwegian, and he never did learn to speak English. So, you know, it’s very authentic Norwegian kind of thing. It, nothing got lost in the translation, it’s like, it’s lost now.
I.F.- Right.
L.V. Because there is nobody to really carry it on, but when they were doing the stuff, it was, I could only imagine it was exactly the way it was done back in the old country.
I.F. Right. That’s so cool. So, you said the dish was made at Christmas. Was it made at any other times during the year, for any other occasions?
L.V.- You know, I don’t ever remember them, making the Fattigman any time but at Christmas. It was kind of a treat. I mean it was kind of like, Christmas cookies. You know, you don’t really make them any other time of year. I mean, it’s very Norwegian, you know, it’s (quick pause), Norwegian food is kind of bland and
I.F.- (laughs)
L.V.-You know it’s good in its own way, but a lot of it isn’t real spicy or anything, but there were other things that they made sometimes, but nothing, nothing to the degree of this. And it was, it was just Christmas.
I.F.- Would you make it for a Christmas Day meal, or was it a Christmas Eve type of thing, or?
L.V.- No, they’d make it ahead of it, and sometimes they would freeze part of it, and everybody would go home with some
I.F- (Acknowledges Comment)
L.V.- Because it made so much. You know, if you looked at the recipe, you started it one day, and then you worked (laughs) on it the next day.
I.F.- Yes! (laughs)
L.V. It took up, it would start in the kitchen, and then they would start frying the stuff and they would need more room, and it would spill over into the next room.
I.F.- (Laughs)
L.V. It was, it really was a big deal.
I.F. Yeah, I did not realize how elaborate it was until I told Marie that I had to make it, and she was like “Oh no.” (laughs)
L.V.- (Laughs) You know, that’s what I remember. You really, I mean, there was what, like four of them there, four or five of them there working on it, and everyone was busy- they were all doing something. Yeah.
I.F.- Well, do you have any special memories yourself of making the dish? Or, anything you can recollect?
L.V.- You know, like I said, it’s very authentic because of, I can trace my family’s history back to Norway pretty easily, but I was a little kid. And that’s kind of interesting and that, like, my mom was the youngest of seven girls. One of them died very young. But, it was all girls and there were seven of them. And, so she was the youngest. Her mom was forty-two when she was born.
I.F.- (Acknowledges comment)
L.V.- My mom, I was also the youngest in my family, and my mom was forty-two when I was born. And so, you know, it’s almost like there should have been a few more generations in there.
I.F.- Yeah.
L.V.- It didn’t happen, and so I feel like I kinda have a window back in time because I, you know, just the span of those generations is so far.
I.F.- Right.
L.V.- But you know, I was a little kid, it was more like “just stay out of the way, and you can have some when they’re done.”
I.F.- (Laughs)
L.V.- So I got to, you know what I do remember doing is the powdered sugar thing. [Referencing putting powdered sugar on cookies] That seemed probably safe and something I could… [stops thought]
I.F.- (Laughs) Yeah, I think, I could be wrong about this, but I think you told me at one point that, you were one of the last people in your family that remembered making the dish and still continued to do it, why is that? Or is there anyone that you can think of in your family that still kind of holds onto that Norwegian heritage and still kind of carries on the tradition of making it?
L.V.- You know, I don’t know if my, you know, I have several cousins that are female, and all my cousins are older than I am- I’m like at the tail-end of everything. But I don’t know if my cousins still do, but they would remember these things, I’m sure, although they’re older than I am. And whether they do it or not, I don’t know. But, I know that they would have recollections of this because their mothers were there, too.
I.F.- (Acknowledges Comment, pauses and writes) So I didn’t know a lot about the cookie before Marie showed me the recipe because I had never hear of it, but I was looking up some stuff on it, and it is translated as “the Poor Man’s Cookie,” so I was wondering if you knew anything about the name significance of it? Or if that was anything you learned about growing up?
L.V.- No, no it really wasn’t. I read that too, and I don’t know. It wasn’t anything we ever talked about, no.
I.F.- Okay.
L.V.- No, it was more tradition that their mother had made these, and then they in turn would make them.
I.F.- Okay. So what are some ingredients of the cookie and how, maybe, how accessible are they right now? Like if you wanted to make it, are they ingredients you could just go out and get, or are they expensive ones that might take a while to come across?
L.V.- No. I mean like, like I said, Norwegian food is generally pretty basic, pretty bland. I think it’s more in the making of it than in the ingredients. You know what I mean? It’s how long you beat the eggs, how long you chill the dough, you know, it’s more the technique than the ingredients that contribute to the real taste of it.
I.F. - Yeah, what was, you said that you didn’t necessarily get to have a huge role in making the cookies, but what was your favorite… [stops thought]
L.V.- Nope. (Explains) Hot grease. [Interviewee is explaining she was not allowed to help because of the danger of hot grease]
I.F.- (Laughs) What was your favorite part, maybe since you weren’t necessarily connected in making them, besides the powdered sugar, what was your favorite part to watch or to observe when they were making them?
L.V.- Oh, what I remember the most, the best, the most distinct thing I remember, is the cutting after they rolled them out, cutting them with those, with those ribbony-cutters, what do I want to say? What do I want to call that? You know, where they, I showed you a picture of those things.
I.F.- (Laughs) Yes, I know what you are talking about.
L.V.- They’re like the rotary, but they’re not a straight edge, they make a little back and forth design when you cut with them. But the thing I remember the best is they, they’d cut, they’d roll that out, and then they’d cut that dough, and then they’d quickly flip it, they’d cut a little cut in the center in each one of the pieces, and then flip it inside-out. And that was a thing I remember the most. You know, because that is not something you would normally do with food, right? When you are a little kid and you are watching somebody make something, they don’t flip it inside-out and kind of twist it. That’s the part I remember the best. But, that’s what made, that’s what made the thing unique, you know.
I.F.- Right, it seems like, cause we’ve talked about, I read an article about Norwegian foods and the cookies were mentioned in there, but it seemed like so many recipes were appearance-based. And they had to look a certain way, and it’s like you said, foods themselves might be bland, but there is so much that went into the preparation of it, which is crazy. Um, let’s see…
L.V.- Yeah, it’s a very, the texture has to be right, and there is no deviation. I mean, every one was the same size. We did not have some that were bigger and some that were smaller;
they were all exactly the same.
I.F.- (Laughs) At what stage of making the cookies do you think was the most difficult, or getting that the most precise?
L.V- What stage? Hmmmm, I think probably getting the dough to the right texture to roll it out properly. So it’s not too sticky and not too dry- that it’s going to be tough, and I’m sure it’s the consistency of the dough that’s the toughest thing.
I.F. – Yeah. (Pauses) Did you ever witness, when your family was making it, did you ever witness them screw that up at all? Or, were they always really good at keeping that consistent?
L.V.- Yep, I don’t remember anybody messing anything up. No. And if they did, I don’t know, they just (pauses) covered up. My mother’s sisters were very, they were very close-knit family. Yeah.
I.F.- So when they were, yeah, when they were all making it , did everyone have certain jobs? Or was everyone just kind of like, okay we are at this stage of prepping it, and everyone helped with that before moving to the next stage? Or, was it kind of divvied up?
L.V.-  No, I think it was the first way. I think that they did such a massive volume of this stuff, that everybody just did so much in each portion of the process. Yeah.
I.F.- (Acknowledges Comment) Were they, when they were making it, were they very focused on what they were doing? Or, were they talking about…
L.V.- Oh no, there was a lot of chitter-chatter.
I.F.- (Laughs)
L.V.-  Yeah, about, you know everybody, other people in the family…
I.F.- (Laughs) Of course.
L.V.- You know, it was a room full of women, a room full of (undistinguishable word), no, there was no silence.
I.F.- (Laughs) That’s awesome. So when the cookies are actually finished, what is the final, what do they look like when they are done? Because it is kind of talked about, like we said, this elaborate process, so do they have any special design? Or do they just look pretty normal?
L.V.- Well, have you seen pictures of what they look like?
I.F.- (Acknowledges I have not)
L.V.-  They’re like a, you know, (undistinguishable word) shape, they’re really kind of geometrical looking, they’re like a diamond- shape, and then they have that flipped inside-out business to them. Yeah, and then of course, covered with a powdered sugar.
I.F.- Yep. Okay, what other foods or like maybe what other drinks are normally served with them? Or, do you remember having anything else with them when you had them when you were growing up?
L.V.- Um, no I really don’t so much. I mean, there was always, always, always coffee. Always, everybody. But maybe that was just part of that time period. I mean people drink a lot of coffee now too. But, I don’t think anybody went to anybody else’s house without a coffee pot on.
I.F.- (Acknowledges comment)
L.V.- And that, and I even remember, I remember dunking them in little coffee, and even back, I was a little kid, you know.
I.F.- (Acknowledges comment) (Pauses) Okay, this might end up being our last question, I’m not, there is a couple other ones, possibly. But, besides cookies, in what other ways do you kind of remember your Norwegian heritage today? Or is there anything else you bake or do, that, you know, really brings that heritage back?
L.V.- Uhmmm, I say Uffda a lot.
I.F.- (Laughs a lot)
L.V.- Uh, (pauses) Yeah, I don’t (pauses) I guess there are a few other recipes that like Christmas like actual cookies that are Norwegian based. Whether or not my grandmother made them and that came from the old country, I don’t know. But it was stuff my mom did, and you know, I know it was Scandinavian like a Spritz cookie, and those kinds of things. Yeah. And I, I like most every kind of food, but, but I do like, and I think Marie has said this to me too; she blames her Norwegianness for her love of the carbohydrates and the breads, and all of that kind of stuff.
I.F.- (Laughs) She’s just nodding, nod, yep.[Referencing Marie’s reaction] Okay, well that is all the questions I have, is there anything else you’d like to talk about, about the recipe, or anything you’d like to add that I didn’t hit on?
L.V.- Um…
I.F.- How long, actually, how long does it take, in total, to make it? I didn’t ask you that.
L.V. What was that?
I.F.- How long does it take in total to make it?
L.V.- What?
I.F.- Because you talked about it being, it could turn into quite the process.
L.V.- Well, I know it took more than just a day, you know. It was at least a two-day deal to do it, but what I was going to say, what you know, what I do remember, is of course, you know, remember the place. And for some reason, it was always at my aunt’s house. That was kind of the designated spot where they would all go to, which I never really, when I think about it I don’t understand why because she had a very small house but that’s where everybody always went. Maybe that was her deal or whatever, but it’s in Little Falls, here.
I.F.- (Acknowledges comment) (pauses) Do you think it would have made Christmas look a lot different had you not had the cookies? Was that something that really added to it, or was it just kind of, you know?
L.V.- Oh yeah, it was definitely part of the deal. Yeah, it wouldn’t have been quite the same without it. Yeah, it was a pretty strong tradition back then.
I.F- Did your grandparents ever tell you much about Norway, or, like, because you said it was your grandfather who came over when he was 17?
L.V.- (Nods) And he lived to almost 100.
I.F.- Wow!
L.V.- So, you know, even given that though, you know,  I was like 10 years old when he died. You know, yeah, I don’t know. Um, I can’t say that I had like real conversations with the man because he was extremely hard of hearing!
I.F and L.V.- (Both laugh)
L.V.- Yeah I don’t know, it’s always funny, the stories I would hear from my mother, and it’s true, in Little Falls, as you know growing up here, there is a lot of Polish people.
I.F.- (Acknowledges comment)
L.V.- And on the West side of town, back when my mother grew up, I mean, it was like little Poland over there.
I.F.- Yeah.
L.V.- I mean everybody was Polish, and everybody spoke Polish.
I.F.- Yeah.
L.V.- And everybody was Catholic. And in the midst of that Poland over there on the West side, was a (undistinguishable word) mother’s family. There was this one Norwegian-Lutheran family in the midst of all these people.
I.F.- (Laughs)
L.V.- It’s the weirdest thing, but, you know, there isn’t anybody else like that.
I.F.- Right.
L.V.- Kinda like a little island over there, but. Yeah, interesting.
I.F.- That’s really cool.
L.V.- Yeah, so maybe, you know maybe, because that was that way, maybe that made them hold on a little bit tighter to some of their, of their heritage, you know?
I.F.- Was it your grandfather then that originally settled in this area then, or did you have family here before that time?
L.V.- He just, he came here. And I don’t know why, I think it’s kind of amazing that he did because by all accounts he came from quite a wealthy family, and had a very nice farm over in Norway. He certainly could have stayed there, but I guess he wanted adventure!
I.F.- (Laughs)
L.V.- (undistinguishable speaking) But good for him, he came, but.
I.F.- Yeah. (pauses to laugh) No, great because then that means you all are here, and I get to be part of your life, and that is the best. (laughs) Yeah, that’s everything that I have, and that, this has been so helpful, like I have learned a lot from you in a short time, so…
L.V.- Well, I hope I, you know, it doesn’t seem like I have terribly interesting things to say, but it’s kind of fun to just, to tell somebody about it.
I.F.- Yeah!
L.V.- Because it would get lost if you don’t.
I.F.- Right, no and we’re going to make, all of our recipes are going to be combined together into a digital cookbook, and so you’ll have access to that. So your recipe will continue on, for a lot of people to see.
L.V.- Wow! Wonderful.
 
*Interview edited for style
 

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