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Pathfinders

The Interview with Judy Malloy about Uncle Roger


This interview of Judy Malloy, conducted by Dene Grigar and Stuart Moulthrop, took place in the afternoon of Friday, September 6, 2013 at Malloy's office at Princeton University and followed after Malloy's traversal. It is divided into 13 video clips that capture much of Malloy's thoughts regarding the development of Uncle Roger and other works, such as its name was Penelope.  A sound file that condenses the 100+ minutes of tapes interviews can be found in this page. It all cases, care has been given to provide a summary of each video clip, but readers are encouraged to watch the videos and gain a good appreciation for Malloy's depth of knowledge about programming, art, early digital culture, and other topics.

Malloy Interview, Part 1, "Humble Beginnings"
This video clip focuses on the origins of Uncle Roger, beginning with Malloy's professional connections with those involved in art and technology in the mid to late 1980s as well as early projects, like the one-off card catalog (1981) and "Bad Information," leading to the development of Uncle Roger. We learn that she began writing the 100 lexis that constitutes the work in August 1986 and published, at ACEN housed on the WELL, the first lexis on December 1, 1986, thereafter releasing 1-2 lexias each day. Interestingly, the audience, participating online, commented on and responded to her work as it was being delivered. Because of the way the work was distributed and allowed for audience participation, Uncle Roger may be considered one of the first social media works of literature.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 10:06 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 2, "The Chip Industry and Uncle Roger

In this video clip Malloy discusses the background of Uncle Roger, a work she calls "a cross between a Renaissance jig and Jane Austin," with Uncle Roger functioning as a "Falstaffian" character in the story. The story's first two parts are set in the male-dominated 1980s computer chip industry in the Silicon Valley where piracy was common; the final part, "Terminals," shifts to the female-dominated word processing industry in the Bay Area. The tech-savvy audience reading the work at ACEN, many of whom were involved in these industries, would have been familiar with the zeitgeist, plots, characters and places found in the work.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 6:51 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 3, "Structural Differences"

In this video clip we learn about the structure of Uncle Roger, including the differences between the versions produced for the Apple IIe and the IBM PC. Malloy talks about the way she created an "ending" for the work. She also points out that "A Party in Woodside" and "The Blue Notebook" were both created as database narratives and "Terminals," as random access (meaning, the reader would not be able to control the lexia that would be evoked). The video ends with Malloy recounting the structure of the story: "A Party in Woodside," action taking place at a party; "The Blue Notebook," recollections involving five storylines (what she refers to as "paths;" "Terminals," a wide range of memories, some coming from the first two parts of the story. In all, Jenny's voice is the dominant one, a rarity in fiction of this nature.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 10:00 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 4, "Avant Garde Qualities"

This video clip includes information about Malloy's background and the various genres of literature that Malloy pioneered. She came from a background producing artists books and doing performance art, particularly cabaret in the tradition of the "jig." Because of this experience, she views drama as the model on which Uncle Roger is built and calls the work "satire." The work is one of the first to experiment with the: 1) serial publication, 2) database novel, 3) generative text, and 4) participatory work. She mentions that she was influence by John Cage's work of generative poetry published by ACEN.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 9:42 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 5, "Challenges and Thrills for Readers"

This video clip focuses on the way early digital literature, like Malloy's, challenges the reader, where the reader is expected to put together the story in a way that print literature does not expect the reader to do. Malloy, who began her career as writer of artists books, book installations, and performance art, clarifies she came to write Uncle Roger as narrative poetry––that is, he 50-character limitation set by ACEN served as a constraint that forced Malloy to think like a poet in developing the work. 

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 6:59 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 6, "Art Community and Feminism"

This video clip highlights the community with which she associated ––that is, Art Com Electronic Network––and the the differences between it and the one that arose out of Eastgate Systems. She relates how she came to move from ACEN to be published by Eastgate. The conversation shifts to a discussion of the feminism inherent in Malloy's work and her connection with cyberfeminism generating out of the beginning of 3rd Wave Feminism. 

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 8:05 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 7, "A Retrospective"

This video clip focuses on Malloy's views when looking back at the work. She talks about the programmatic aspect of the net and boxed versions of Uncle Roger and how this quality is missing from the web version––the first two versions used Boolean logic and, so, could combine keywords on the command line. This approach provided a richness and complexity to Uncle Roger. She also reveals that her early background in computing began in 1969 when she programmed a technical library for a company associated with NASA.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 10:29 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 8, "Creating Art with Digital Technology"

In this video clip Malloy discussed the technological and artistic influences upon her work. She mentions that she was not inspired in the beginning to use computers because the one she used, in 1969, was an IBM 1160, which had no screen. In her discussion about artistic influences she talks about the work of Lou Thomas and Sonya Rapoport. Malloy claims that her own work is 1/2 visual art and 1/2 writing.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 6:40 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 9, "Uncle Roger's Innovation and Audience"

Malloy responds to the question of she innovated through her work and names three: 1) envisioning "lexis" as building blocks for narrative, 2) developing textual links, and 3) publishing her work in a social space with a "vision of audience." She returns to a discussion about the "flatness" of the web version of Uncle Roger, suggesting that this characteristic may be the reason why the work does not get attention despite its availability.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 6:20 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 10, "Interactions and Readings"

This video clip moves into a discussion about audience feedback and the isolation artists and writers may feel. Malloy cites an example of her watching an audience interact with its name was Penelope at a gallery show and, then, making changes to the work based on that feedback.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 7:27 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 11, "The Nature of Critique"

This video clip begins with a conversation about the difference between audience feedback and a critique. Malloy talks about the lack of competition between artists, a situation that changed over time. She mentions the importance of Mark Marino's work with critical code studies in which code is laid bare to study and critique.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 8:11 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 12, "Poetic Narrative and the Future of Writing"

In this video clip Malloy responds to the question, how does she describe herself as an artist? She begins by saying, "electronic writer" and "a poet who works with narrative." She goes on to detail a database work she produced with BASIC, a program she began using in 1990 and talks about the potential of "electronic writers," "maker of electronic literature." She emphasizes about the importance of the "buzz" stemming from exhibits, courses, and other activities for building interest.

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 9:39 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

Malloy Interview, Part 13, "Limitless Potential"

The interview concludes with the idea of the limitless potential of electronic literature. Malloy points out that she sees this potential because of the abundance of tools and the vision of individual artists. She talks about current work she is "scoring" based on musical notation. 

The video file is saved as a high-quality 1280 x 720, compressed MPEG-4 Movie (.mp4) H.264 codec, with a high-quality audio track (.aac). The duration is 7:22 minutes, streaming from the Vimeo video-sharing site.

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