Stephanus Edition
1 2016-08-05T10:45:45-07:00 Kenneth Morrell 47b00129784874ff795ddec26845a95fd3a84a32 8876 1 Pages 32-33 from the third volume showing passages from the Timeaeus plain 2016-08-05T10:45:46-07:00 Kenneth Morrell 47b00129784874ff795ddec26845a95fd3a84a32This page is referenced by:
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2016-08-04T12:50:50-07:00
Speech of Phaedrus in Praise of Love
19
Plato'a Symposium 178a-180b
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2016-09-10T08:18:36-07:00
Translated by Seth Benardete
First some observations and questions:
The text contains numbers in square brackets. These derive from the numbering system established by Henricius Stephanus (Henri Estienne) in his three-volume edition of Plato's works published in 1578. This edition featured two columns of text. Estienne set the Greek text in the inner column, i.e., the column next to the gutter of the book, and the Latin translation by Jean de Serres in the outer column. He also divided the Greek text into sections, which he labeled with the Roman letters A through E in the alley, i.e., the space between the columns. Here is an image of pages 32-33 of volume three, which shows a section from Timaeus:
In this speech Phaedrus makes a distinction between what people do in public and in private. How does his view of amorous relationships differ from those that we encounter today when they involve public figures?
In our exploration of the parallels between the relationships of Achilles and Patroclus and Socrates and Alibiades, does Phaedrus' references to the former change your assumptions about the later?
First of all, as I [Apollodorus] say, he [Aristodemus] said that Phaedrus began his speech at somewhat the following point: that Eros was a great and wondrous god among human beings as well as gods, and that this was so in many respects and not least in the matter of birth. "For the god to be ranked among the oldest [178b] is a mark of honor," he said, "and here is the proof: the parents of Eros neither exist nor are they spoken of by anyone, whether prose author or poet; but Hesiod says that Chaos came first—
Then thereafter
Broad-breasted Earth, always the safe seat of all,
And ErosAfter Chaos, he says, there came to be these two, Earth and Eros. And Parmenides says that Genesis,
First of all gods, devised Eros.
[178c] Akousilaus agrees with Hesiod as well. So there is an agreement in many sources that Eros is among the oldest. And as he is the oldest, we have him as the cause of the greatest goods, for I can hardly point to a greater good for someone to have from youth onward than a good lover, and for a lover, a beloved. For that which should guide human beings who are going to live fairly throughout their lives can be implanted by neither blood ties, nor honors, nor wealth, nor anything [178d] else as beautifully as by love. Now what do I say this is? It is shame in the face of shameful things and honorable ambition in the face of beautiful things; for without them neither city nor private person can accomplish great and beautiful deeds. So I assert that in the case of any real man who loves, were it to come to light that he was either doing something shameful or putting up with it from another out of cowardice and without defending himself, he would not be as pained on being observed by either his father, his comrades, or anyone [178e] else as by his beloved. We observe that this same thing holds in the case of the beloved; he is exceptionally shamed before his lovers whenever he is seen to be involved in something shameful. So if there were any possibility that a city or an army could be composed of lovers and beloveds, then there could be no better way for them to manage their own city; for they would abstain from all that is shameful and be filled with love of honor before [179a] one another. And besides, were they to do battle alongside one another, then even a few of this sort would win over just about all human beings; for a real man in love would of course far less prefer to be seen by his beloved than by all the rest when it comes to deserting his post or throwing away his weapons; he would choose to be dead many times over before that happened. And, to say nothing of leaving behind one's beloved or not coming to his aid when he is in danger, there is no one so bad that, once the god Eros had entered him, he would not be directed toward virtue—to the point where he is like one who is best by nature: [179b] And simply, as Homer said, 'the strength that the god breathed' into some of the heroes, Eros supplies from himself to lovers.
"And what is more, lovers are the only ones who are willing to die for the sake of another; and that is not only true of real men but of women as well. Alcestis, the daughter of Pelias, offers a sufficient testimony for Greeks on behalf of this argument. She alone was willing to die on behalf of her husband, though his father and [179c] mother were alive; but through her love she so much surpassed his parents in friendship that she showed them up as alien to their own son and only related to him in name. Her performance of this deed was thought to be so noble in the opinion not only of human beings but of the gods as well that, although there have been many who have accomplished many noble deeds, the gods have given to only a select number of them the guerdon of sending up their souls again from Hades, and hers they did send up in admiring delight at [179d] her deed. So gods, too, hold in particular esteem the zeal and virtue that pertain to love. Orpheus, the son of Oeagrus, they sent back from Hades unfulfilled; and though they showed him a phantom of his wife, for whom he had come, they did not give her very self to him, because it was thought he was soft, like the lyre player he was, and had not dared to die for love like Alcestis, but contrived to go into Hades alive. Consequently, they imposed a punishment on him, and made him die at the hands of women [179e], and did not honor him as they had Achilles, the son of Thetis. For Achilles they sent away to the Isles of the Blest, because, though he had learned from his mother that he would be killed if he killed Hector, and that if he did not, he would return home and die in old age, still he dared to choose to come to the aid of his lover Patroclus; and [180a] with his vengeance accomplished, he dared not only to die on his behalf but to die after him who had died. On this account, the gods were particularly impressed and gave him outstanding honors, because he had made so much of his lover. Aeschylus talks nonsense in claiming that Achilles was in love with Patroclus (rather than the other way around), for Achilles was more beautiful than not only Patroclus but all the other heroes as well; and besides, he was unbearded, and thirdly, far younger than Patroclus, as Homer says. Well, anyhow, though the gods really hold in very high esteem that virtue which concerns [180b] love, they wonder, admire, and confer benefits even more when the beloved has affection for the lover than when the lover has it for the beloved. A lover is a more divine thing than a beloved, for he has the god within him. This is the reason why they honored Achilles more than Alcestis and sent him to the Isles of the Blest."So this is how I assert that Eros is the oldest, most honorable, and most competent of the gods with regard to the acquisition of virtue and happiness by human beings both when living and dead.”
