Did he spend a lot of time with the actors, with you, preparing your role, working on your motivation, or was he more of a director who was just letting you do your thing?

No, he would let you do your own thing. I noticed that because I asked if he – what he thought he wanted to see from Big Mabel. I’d already had my own characterization going. And he says, “You know, Carol, I see when you’re on the witness stand, I’m envisioning you twisting in your chair, with a being of uneasy,” and what have you. And I thought, that’s just the opposite of what I’m going to do. I just let him give me what he thought, and I did what I wanted to do, and it worked. And I went to him later, and I said, “How did it work?” He said, “What you did was right on.” Yeah. He wanted me twisting and turning, and I thought, mm-mmm, no.

No, because she wouldn’t have been nervous.

No, no. No. This woman was – hey. You know? This woman had a lot of moxie and what have you. She would’ve been sitting there, you know? I feel that he got good performances out of everybody.

Yeah, and the kids are great, I think.

Oh, the kids were great, just great, and he enjoyed them too. They felt very comfortable with Gordon also. And I’m trying to think of any other interesting anecdotes, Katy.

Oh yes. I didn’t go to the one in New York, but I did – apparently PR decided since I was a sexual factor in this, that I should go – I did my hometown of Cleveland, and I also did Detroit and Chicago. They sent me on a PA, you know, with that. They were fun, you know?  Those were the days when everything was so first class. Everything was first class, you know? My God, when you flew first class on United – nothing like the

way it is now, you know? Um, so, I mean, it was just delightful and I got a chance to spend some time in my hometown of Cleveland, and with my old friends, and they threw a luncheon for me, and all. I think one of the things – one of the greatest compliments I got was – they said, “Carol, you haven’t changed a

bit. You’re as crazy as ever.” [Laughter.]

Was it – how big of a deal was it when it opened? I mean this is, you know, we look back and it was the first –

Yes it was, and you know let me tell you this, Katy. I said, “My God, I’m in USSR, the magazine USSR, I was in Time, I was in Newsweek, um, The Hollywood Reporter, you know? All that – and I think about – and of course that incredible thing in Life magazine, where I’m running, did you ever – it’s out there [in the Gordon Parks Museum]. 

Oh, okay.

Yeah, it’s out there. In fact I gave it to Jill. Yeah, because I kept it forever.

It’s in the museum?

It’s in the museum, and it’s Gordon, of course being with Life – they gave about a four-page, wonderful spread. And there I – I’ll never forget – I’m standing in what was then Sav-On Drug store in the height of flu season in November, and I told you about this poor husband of mine that was about to expire from flu, and I had gotten his medication, and I’m standing, and there was a new Life magazine with Richard Nixon on it – 1968, he had won – and I open the magazine and right there is me running across a field with the tornado scene. I died laughing. I know people wondered –

You and Nixon, together forever.

Me and Nixon. Are you ready?  Yeah. And I laughed so I know people in line thought this is a real crackpot, this woman. But I said – I thought, I never thought I’d see myself in Life magazine. I thought I never would, you know? So, I mean it was very heady.

Yeah, I bet. So can you tell – tell me a little bit about your life after – in the years since –

Okay, you know, we know the business. You’re as good as your last job. We know that, and thank God I never had any illusions of being a superstar, none of that. I wanted to be a working actor. I would’ve been very contented with that, you know? With me, unfortunately after that, I was always offered roles of prostitutes, loose women, and I got type casting, which I hated. But then I caught a break with Redd Foxx, and was able to do comedy when he had his comedy show, which I loved, which got me other work because they saw that I could do it. I’d go into a casting, and they’d say, “Oh she looks like a fashion model.” And I said, “Well let me read.” And when I finished reading, they would be on the floor. And I also – from that another comedy role – I did “The Parkers,” where I played the role of crazy Aunt Clara, which was delightful. And then things – you know what, you got to really, really work at it, Katy, and I lost the zest, to be very truthful. I lost that zest around the late 90s, and I said, “I’m going to go on honorary withdrawal and just do something else.” And after that – I had had a very good background in education. I didn’t finish at UCLA, but I had a couple years, and by that time, the No Child Left Behind measure had come through, which, you know, was the alliance between George Bush and Ted Kennedy. And I know it was much maligned, and a lot of people hear No Child Left Behind and they cringe, but I must say, myself personally, I’ve experienced a lot of success with my students. So I got into that, because I went into language arts, and – I’m sure you know the basis of it, so I had to bring up – the schools that are floundering and failing – bring them up to national average, which is a yeoman’s task in California. You know, because of our immigrant population, it’s very difficult, very challenging, but I love every moment of it.

So you’re teaching in schools now?

Yeah.

What grades do you teach?

I go from the second through the eighth.

That’s wonderful. 

Yeah, and I love it. I love the kids. I’m able to use my acting. They die laughing when I go into character. One of my little fourth graders, Stephanie Salazar, says, “Oh, miss Karole, you make me laugh all the time.” I love that. I love that. And I think another thing too, Katy, that just oh man, I felt feel good, was – I was at the library because you know, you can choose between – whatever the parent wants, the home or the library – and the Salazars for Stephanie chose the library. It was a Saturday.  And a lady was sitting in front of me, and – a Caucasian lady – and she turned from time to time and smiled – we were working, Stephanie and I. Stephanie’s dad came to pick her up, and the lady turned to me and said, “Are you a teacher?” I said, “No, no. I am not a licensed teacher. I’m a tutor.” She said, “Well, you have a gift.” I was just overwhelmed. She said, “I listened to you. I saw the way you were able to get into that kid’s head, and be there with her, and how you got the best out of her.” It was like ten million dollars to me, Katy. I walked on air after that. She said she had taught for thirty years and the she decided to go into constitutional law, that’s what she was studying. But to get that from a thirty-year veteran teacher, wow.

Well that’s wonderful. I’m sure your kids love you.

Well, you know what, I’m so proud, I have to say I’m one of the most requested in our – you know, they have what they call providers, they have fifty-two providers for the No Child, and the one that I’m in, [they] told me, she says, “Karole, you know you’re one of the most requested. They’re always saying, “Is Miss Graham available?” Makes me feel good. I’m not getting rich. You know, I’m not getting rich, but I love what I do. If I couldn’t be into acting, I love what I’m doing.

Well thank you so much for talking to me. One last question, about your name, because your name is Karole Graham –

That’s my legal name.

That’s your legal name, your professional name was different.

Lamond. Right, I used my husband’s middle name at that time.

Oh, what was your given name? What were you born as?

When I tell you, you’re going to die laughing. Carol Shirley Bugg. B-u-g-g.

I can see why you changed it.  [Laughter.] 

First man that came along, yes I’ll marry you.

Thank you so much.